Please complete the sentence using the comments facility!
This is not formal research - it does not satisfy any suitable criteria, but I am interested to test out whether I get the responses I anticipate.
If you happen to be a (BUGB) Baptist minister and happen to recall how the experience of "doing" Baptist history and principles felt, how it was taught, what books you used and what essays you wrote, I'd also be interested to know that.
For example, when I 'did' them back in 2001 'might as well get it over with as early as possible' we spent 8 weeks working with Methodist and URC students - 2 on the Protestant Reformation, 2 on each tradition - and then 2 weeks as a group of three Baptists: an RSC probationer, a final year student and me, a second year (of four). I wrote an essay on Baptism, one on the formation of my college, and another on the role of womwn in Baptist history (which I think every woman who ever trained at Northern also wrote!!). Eight years later I am far more fascinated by our history - and more specifically our historiography - than I would even had thought possble, so much so in fact that I'm asking these questions!
It would also be good to know what non-BUGB Baptist did/think.
Please be honest - uncle Paul isn't looking! (Or is he?!)
Comments
I did mine via correspondence from Bristol and it made a nice change from all those modules on Anglicanism (I did four).
But to be frank the textbooks are a bit boring. I've got so much more out of it all in the last few months of delving into the NC.
This post solicited a huge response then.....(!)
LOL, indeed. Which was one of the results I'd anticipated.
Other answers I thought I might get were...
'yawn' 'run a mile' 'groan' or 'move to a more interesting/appealing blog/post'
which, whilst sad, would at least affirm my suspicions.
As you observe, it's only when we read it with a sense of purpose that this history stuff turns out to be interesting. Ticking denominational boxes and jumping through fomational hoops inevitably seesm to engender negative emotions/attitudes.
Hi, I did baptist history and principles last yr at Bristol Baptist college. I enjoyed the principles part - specially because we had two good lectures: Steve and Sian. I especially liked thinking and discussing baptist distinctives on: reading scripture through Christ (refreshing for someone who spent 2yrs doing theology at uni), communion (ordinances and sacrament) and mission (best part for me!). Also it was good to be able to see baptist history as a whole, and how it links together - we only focused on English baptists and would like to look further into european baptists particulary anabaptism.
I took an exam and so therefore have errased from memory what questions I answered!
I guess I read all the normal texts by Paul Beasley-Murray, Nigel Wright, and Roger Hayden.
So my thoughts..something I'd like to look at again but not at the moment.
Lucy
I did my essays in a bit of a mess as I 'covered' some of the requirement with essays I had already done as part of my course ( I did everything in an unusual way as you may have gathered by now) So I used Downgrade essay and something else and then added two others whose titles elude me at present!
Sorry, not much help! I can probably find them if required!
... think of jumping through hoops to become a Baptist minster. Except literally jumping through hoops is more fun!
Thanks folks, this is great stuff - hope a few more feel able to contribute.
Lucy - I enjoyed the principles stuff too; I'm fascinated by your interest inthe Anabsptist stuff cos all the 'official' histories I've read are very wary of it....
Julie - no I don't need to know more details on what you wrote (though would be fascinated by your views on Downgrade and Biblicism, especially since the 'heretic' Generals were accused of the latter)
Glen - real hoops way more fun I suspect.
Of course, anabaptism is alive and well in this country. See
http://www.anabaptistnetwork.com/
http://www.menno.org.uk/
[I should declare an interest as a Trust Member of the later :-)]
Thanks Andy, it is and it does a great job.
I am just fascinated by how our histories spend ages waffling about Helwys and Smyth in Amsterdam talking and living with Anabaptists and then denying any connection... yeah, right, like I could live and worship with people for years and not be influenced, duh. Not that I'm biased or anything!!
I agree.
I suspect that if previous generations regarded anabaptists as a bit dodgy in some ways then there would be a desire to distance baptists from them - we're OK, we don't hold these wierd views, etc.
Sadly, I suspect that baptist witness in the UK has lost something over the years by denying these links.
Covenant... I remember discovering covenant and wondering why no-one had mentioned it to me when initiating me into Baptist circles. I quickly discovered... when my long-suffering congregation hadn't heard of it either! Similarly: association, lengthy confessions, membership registers with tantalising details of reasons for exclusion ('attended communion with Anglicans', 'stood as godparent at a christening', 'walked with Wesleyans', 'never did take her place up at communion', and 'returned as a dog to his vomit' - presumably a comment on the said person's moral conduct rather than his choice of Christian friends!) and then the slow transition from being a 'gathered church' to being the only mainstream denomination where you don't have to be baptised to be a church member!
Fascinating stuff. All very different from the simple reinterpretation of Baptist tradition and principles (popular among my long-suffering congregation at the time) that being a Baptist meant nobody else being able to tell you what to do (but that's contextual theology for you. You have to appreciate the community where that praxis arose and maybe to have worked with one or two local councillors from the area to recognise the cultural soil in which that particular seed grew!).
Oh and Paul Fiddes and open boundaries. Brilliant, but equally unheard of by my long-suffering... etc.
Downgrade I remember for a particular reason. It was anticipated in my home church's early history. It was built by LBA and then a congregation grew. The first preacher was Spurgeon himself. It soon had two ministers. The senior one dismissed the associate for preaching heresy - the church took exception to his action and dismissed him and reinstated the associate! The LBA found nothing heretical about the preaching! Both I believe, if I remember rightly, later went on to important roles within BU! Spurgeon would have sided with the senior minister! Thus grew my roots and possibly my place in a corner of you know where!
Thanks one and all, this is really incredibly helpful and useful - even if I can't quote it!
Some of the things that strike me are...
*lots of Baptists really don't know (or care) anything about our heritage
*lots of people only ever study the 'official' line in an unquestioning way (must admit I did initially, only by constant re-reading am I beginning to problematise it all) purely to jump through a few rather dull wooden hoops (no neon, glow in the dark, plastic hoops allowed here)
*most of the books are boring
*most of it just doesn't connect with local congregations (Andy J I seem to recall your erstwhile congregation contemplated moving from NC G Baps to P Baps just because the local people in the former offended them over some silly thing - let's just swallow a whole different atonement theology just to thumb our noses at the chapel over the road...)
*some of us actually think it is interesting and inspiring but can't see how to convince others likewise!
Just maybe this DPT will help me move things on a millimetre... but don't hold your breath!